A few days ago I received a marketing email from Mark Hoverson, which contained the question, “Is the shirt Mark is wearing on this video worth $480?” That, of course, is Mark’s way of getting you to watch the video (see link below). I didn’t care about the shirt, but I noticed that the link looked interesting.

www.JoeyBorden.com/Mark/MarkAnnInterview.mp4

So, I clicked on it and I wasn’t disappointed.

What’s So Special About the Interview?

If you are an internet marketer or a network marketer,  I think you’ll find this 13 minute video well worth a look.   As she reveals in the video, Ann Sieg has sold more than 4 million copies of “The Renegade Network Marketer” ebook.  Her audience for this ebook is mostly baby boomers.  As she tells it, she sold so many copies precisely because she understood her target market in depth.  She wrote the book to boomers.  In the video, she tells you a lot about this market.  If you’re interested in marketing to boomers, you need to know what she has to say.

On the other hand, if you’re shopping for an MLM to join,  Ann gives her reasons for joining Global Resorts Network (GRN).  As Mark says in the video, “This is big news.”  GRN is an MLM with a big ticket item.  It costs $3k to join.  When you sign someone up, you get $1k commission (out of that $3k) and your upline also gets $1k commission (also out of that $3k).  I’ve heard Ann say on another occasion that in her experience, you do the same amount of work to close a big ticket sale as you do a small ticket sale.  So, why would you want to sell the small ticket (low cost) item?  Other aspects of her decision are revealed in the video.   I’m not going to argue the pro’s and con’s of different MLM compensation structures in this post.  However, I do plan to address the topic of big ticket vs. small ticket MLM’s in the near future.

Don’t Know How Long the Link Will Remain Active

Since I don’t know how long the video (above) will remain available, I’m including the text of the interview below.  I transcribed it VERY quickly, so there will be typos. My apologies for any minor errors.  Here’s the video link in case you missed it.

www.JoeyBorden.com/Mark/MarkAnnInterview.mp4

And here’s the transcript.

Mark Hoverson Interviews Ann Sieg About GRN

MH: One thing that I wanted to talk about real quick is what we are gonna share is kind of big news. And I say it’s big news because Ann, the Renegade Network Marketer…  Now I know you don’t flash around how many sales that had.   But it was millions.

AS: It’s probably over 4 million now.

MH: 4 million.  And for Ann to join Global Resorts Network, and that’s really what we’re going to talk about. Of the kajillions of MLM’s and all the pitches you get.  And…

AS: I got a few today.

MH: I did too.  Today I’ve had two, and it’s a ground floor.  It’s brand new. It’s gonna change the world, and all that.  But I’ve gotta ask you straight up, GRN why?  Why GRN?

AS: I think, you’ve used the phrase lifestyle and I think that’s significant because so many things are changing. And how people want to adapt to these changes.  And the big part of that is, well in my age group, it’s bringing in those retirement years a lot sooner rather than waiting.  And to be honest, you know that whole model of retirement being when you hit 65.  That’s all a thing of the past.  So, let’s start retirement sooner.  Parsing that out, taking that out now, rather than delaying.

MH: Today, the whole idea of our team, and you’re gonna see probably clips any second of our team when we went on our hike today.  We’re doing San Francisco very soon. And that’s biking over the Golden Gate bridge…  We had basically baby boomers.  And one of the things I learned from you is, when we were talking about collaborating on this team before there was a team, you were just talking about the baby boomer and the mass of wealth that is in the baby boomer…  You Know Ann’s like (he gestures).

AS: It’s big!

MH: Yeah, well tell me. I mean I think  it’s weird cause I’m 31 and 95% of my team is baby boomers. And so we both know baby boomers.  And your crowd is generally baby boomers.

AS: mm-hmm.

MH: And one thing that Ann just said is they like anti-aging.  They popularized anti-aging.

AS: mm-hmm.

MH: They popularized the idea of vacations.  You know as a lifestyle. My parents parents never took a single vacation, outside of the family trips. So your generation has changed America.

AS: Very much so.

MH: And tell me just a couple of things about marketing to baby boomers, cause you got into the demographics and the psychographics of the baby boomer and the GRN fit and all that. What do you think is a unique touch on that?

AS: I especially saw it through a group of students that I worked with last year. And when I polled them, they’re very mission driven.  They’ve lived their lives, as far as raising their children.  And now is their time to live.  But they’re very
much about giving back as a very prominent feature.  In fact, of my members that are going to be showing up here shortly, I have a team leader and she said none of them are after the big house, the fancy car.  It didn’t come up with a single
person.  They’re very much about helping other people, and wanting to invest in other peoples’ lives. And while they do want wealth, but it’s… they want to hang with people who are also mission driven.  (This) is a very big part.  They want to enjoy that experience together.  Travelling.  We see that today.  There were conversations on the trail that were about that.

MH: I remember that poll. Cause Ann, she’s, your list is hundreds of thousands.

AS: (nods)

MH: And she polls this list.  And it’s funny because they weren’t after the fancy car, weren’t after the fancy home, but vacationing hit there. Because it was a family hot button. And as people hit baby boomer, i’ve just got young kids, but even I’m getting more reflective on how travelling is like… The memories that I remember from childhood are bound up in travelling. But travelling was one of the things that they were all about because it was family centered. And so people are looking for time freedom, and the whole idea of  automation and direct response.  I mean you are the queen of direct response. You’re basically the founder of online direct response for MLM.

AS: Thank you.

MH: The initial renegade network marketer. And, just… People want… They want time freedom.  They want travel.  They want all of these hot buttons. But GRN…  I want to get back to the GRN concept.  There’s other travel things.  There’s other travel little clubs and stuff. So, what did you see with GRN in terms of you being a marketer?  And maybe feeling some freedom there.  What was it?

AS: There was a lot.  One was a higher price point item.  And I have to be honest, these other travel companies didn’t appeal to me that much in the past. MLM’s that is. And we haven’t been big travelers.  But I think what’s really changed for that… You were talking about polling earlier.  I did a poll back in February of this year (2010) and 21% of my audience said they’d prefer to consume information at live training events. I have to admit that factors into it. Aside from travelling for enjoyment, this is enjoyment.  Meeting up with other like-minded people.

(phones ringing)
MH: And we’ve got the phones blazing back there.
AS: You know what it is? People want to know how to get here.

AS: So part of it is straight up travelling for enjoyment, but it’s also travelling so they can experience being in groups with people.

MH: I think the coolest thing is, like tonight…  This is deep in the psychology. I’m going deep down the rabbit hole here.  Is that typical corporate America does not offer a platform like we did this weekend. Corporate America is not going to invite you into a world-class 5-star suite, serve you unlimited top-shelf … and you’re going to hobnob with millionaires. And even bigger than that, in this (internet, mlm) culture, the whole point is to raise up the new people.  And in a corporate setting,  the rich guys hobnob together, because they’re all cash cows. But the employees and the commoners are left out because they’re just carrying weight and stuff. But what’s really cool about what this (mlm) industry can do and it’s important if you can buy into this concept and just accept it as it is.  To be able to immerse somebody into this culture, we provide a kind of lifestyle, even if you are not rich yet.  That’s what’s so cool.  People who are brand new members. We have people from Austrailia who are here. We have people from Norway.

AS: Brazil.

MH: Poland, New Zealand, all over Canada.  But there was a young couple, 22 years old from the east coast.  I forgot where.  They travelled and they make like combined they make $1500 a month. They got on the plane and got here.  They said, “We’re in this fancy suite.  We’re hanging out with you.  This is so great.” And it’s that kind of thing where we can literally spark young couples to see what can happen.  But they can also experience it now.

AS: And I think to adopt that lifestyle at a young age, rather than this whole idea of waiting.  I think people are wanting to start living it out. And I have to say beyond that with GRN was also to work with you was a big part of it. It was the whole package.

MH: We have a lot of fun. We have a lot of fun.  Dangerous fun.  Today (on the hike, someone fell) we had a gentleman whose face is probably permanently scarred.

AS: Ohhhh.

MH: Possibly, did you see it?

AS: I don’t think permanently.

MH: It looked like a tiger claw to me.

AS: It’ll heal. I’ve raised kids, it was not that bad. I’ve had kids wipe out on ?? at 95 miles an hour.  He’s going to be OK.

MH: One tme we were horse back riding through the Phoenix mountains.

AS: Oh, see now that would be dangerous.

MH: And it was dark and this horse bucked a guy off. The point is that the team is having a ball and they talk about it forever. Carl, who wiped out on that horse, he still talks about it to this day. And he’s known as Carl the wipe out…  So it’s kind of like, what we  like to do here is immerse people with like-minded people. And with the internet what you’re able to do is… In our normal world… I smoke cigars with some college kids.  My college kids, I live in North Dakota and I also live in Arizona.  The kids ask, “How do you stay so motivated when no one around you is motivated?”  Everybody’s kind of cashed-out (in North Dakota), this is what you do. You go to a hockey game on the weekend.  You drink beer and…

AS: This is really hot.  If you’re not motivated and it’s key… You know I’ve got a story that I want to share with you.  I’ve got a gal when I was at the Arkansas airport, Little Rock, on the way here.  “Are you Ann Sieg?”  We talked about this weekend.  And do you know why she’s coming here?

MH: Why?

AS: Inspiration.

MH: Yeah.

AS: She’s been in network marketing for over 30 years. She’s a baby boomer. She came here for inspiration.  And that really stood out to me. She was paying, taking time to come out here just for that purpose.  And that’s key. Like you’re saying, up in North Dakota that’s not happening.  So people will come to experience being around people who will motivate and excite them.  And that’s what we’re able to provide.

(phones ringing)

MH: We’ve got a busy room but we’re rolling anyway.

AS: People knocking on the door..

MH: Not that it matters because we’re hot right now. It’s this whole idea of… it’s a mastermind. And the idea of a mastermind is when 2 or more come together there’s a third entity. And it’s a master mind.  Like the meeting of the minds. And so people travel literally across the world.  We had a guy from Poland, you were telling me.

AS: Well Norway, he was going to be at dinner but didn’t make it because…

MH: There’s a hurricane in Ireland or earthquake or some weird thing that maybe caught him up (actually, it was a volcano in Iceland).

AS: He found out Monday or Tuesday night about this meeting on Thursday. And he’s en route somewhere. People are that eager and excited to be here for this 2 hour explicit team meeting.

MH: And it’s the human touch at the end of the day.  What we’ve done online, and you’re talking about joining me and the team.  What we’ve done really is… A lot of times online marketing has kind of a scammy history and edge.  “Make money at home” is kind of blinged out. Draping girls on Lambourghini’s is not cool. It’s just gross.

AS: It’s kind of cheesy.

MH: Baby boomers hate that.

AS: They don’t like it. That’s for sure.

MH: Baby boomers like professionalism.  They like integrity. They like real people. Because they grew up in the non-tech (world).  Not like the youth of today. Today kids would rather text than talk. Baby boomers would rather talk than text.

AS: That is so true.

MH: What’s interesting is if you’re gonna dominate online, and hit that baby boomer zone, you’ve gotta have reality (and) meetings.  You’ve gotta have this kind of thing. And by doing this it subconsciously… I’m going on a tangent here Ann, but it’s so  important.  It subconsciously says, “These people can’t be scammin’ people. They’ve got this open, transparent community that people are invited to.”  If you scam somebody and you invite them to a live event …

AS: That’s not going to work.

MH: It’s just a dangerous model. You know. So we’re excited for tonight. You’re going to see some clips in a moment of us, just bonding really.

AS: They’re calling on the phone. They’re that excited.

MH: So we’ll check back with you here in just a minute.

Right after joining a nutritional supplement MLM, I dutifully decided to approach my family and friends, my so-called “warm market.” My girl friend’s mother was visiting us from Las Vegas. She was working for a health club in sales. She’s one of their top earners. An ace. I thought for sure she’d be interested. After all, the supplements were pharmaceutical grade, the best in the business, and health was her main interest. But when I approached her, as soon as I mentioned “network marketing” she didn’t want to hear about it. My warm market was suddenly very, very cold. It turns out that she had been involved in several network marketing companies in the past. She poured her heart and soul into them and got very little in return. There was no way she was going to go chasing after prospects ever again.

As it turned out, others in my warm market had similar experiences with MLM’s. All of them bad, and nobody wanted anything to do with another MLM.   Interestingly, it wasn’t about motivation or effort. Many of the people I approached were successfully self-employed, or were top earners in their companies. There was nothing lacking. They all had talent, intelligence and drive.

What’s the problem?

The problem was that all of us network marketers were prospecting people who were not interested.  By prospecting our warm markets, we were spending our time talking to people who were happy enough with their current jobs and health products.  They were not seeking any change.  For them, it was just like when someone comes up to you on the street or comes to your front door and tries to sell you something.  You feel invaded and mistrustful.  Why? Because you didn’t ask to be prospected. You weren’t shopping for whatever they were selling.

When What You’re Doing Isn’t Working, Try Anything Different

Needless to say, I was as uncomfortable with my warm market as they were with me.  So, I decided to leave them alone and try purchasing leads instead.

With purchased leads, I soon discovered that there were similar problems, but this time I was paying for those problems ($2.50 or more per lead).  Usually the ads that pull in these leads are generic.  They usually headline something like “Looking for a Home Business?”  So, even if the prospects are looking for a home business, they’re not necessarily interested in your kind of business or your particular product. They’re slightly better targeted than your warm market, but not much. What’s worse is that the companies who sell you the leads typically sell the same leads to many other network marketers.  So, you often get a very cold response when you call the lead who has probably already been approached a few times.  “What are you calling me for?  I just talked to someone about this.  Leave me alone! Click.”

What’s the Solution?

There are several directions you can go in to put the odds in your favor.

• 1. Fine Tune Your Phone Skills.
  You can find the best source of leads available and use it. Then focus your attention on developing good listening and consultation skills on the phone. You’ll get a higher percentage of leads deciding to join your network. In this regard, the best training by far is Tim Sales’ “Brilliant Communicator” and “Brilliant Inviter” CD sets. Tim Sales has developed the most remarkable listening skills. When you hear his recorded sales calls, you won’t be at all surprised that he built a $22 million network with his approach.
• 2. Use internet marketing to pull in leads.
  For this option, you need to learn how to advertise on the internet. There’s an array of techniques, some involve blogging, some involve social media (e.g. Twitter and Facebook) and others are just straightforward advertising using tools that Google provides. There are trainings (discussed below) that show you how to do internet marketing. It can be used to generate highly targeted and qualified leads. Those who get through your funnel,
  will be the ones interested in your opportunity, so your percentage of closings will be higher.
• 3. Conventional advertising.
  Not a lot of network marketers admit to this, but you can advertise in the traditional media, such as radio, television, magazines and newspapers. I haven’t explored this route so I can’t offer any suggestions.

How to Master Internet Marketing

Here are 3 training systems that I’ve used. They’re each targeted toward slightly different audiences.

• 1. Renegade Professional
  A collection of training videos that you can watch with a monthly subscription. It is quite comprehensive. Over 200 videos cover every aspect of internet marketing. It is especially good for folks who are new to the internet and especially Web 2.0. You can read my comprehensive review of Renegade Professional here.
• 2. Mike Dillard’s eBooks
  These can be bought separately as: Magnetic Sponsoring, Building on a Budget, Traffic Formula 2, PPC Domination, and Black Belt Recruiting. (Note that these are affiliate links.) Dillard’s material is geared more for people who have more experience with computers, the internet and Web 2.0. Because they assume more knowledge, an experienced person can move through them very quickly.
• 3. Perry Marshall’s Adwords book and trainings (not an affiliate link)
  Perry Marshall wrote a wonderful book: “The Ultimate Guide to Google Adwords: How to Access 100 Million People in 10 Minutes.” If you are willing to pay for advertising, as you were paying for leads, this can be an extremely quick and cost-effective way to get targeted leads. You have to be careful though. When you’re paying every time somebody clicks on your ad, the cost can ad up very quickly. Use this only if you’re going to follow his instructions to the letter.

The Tradeoffs: Internet Marketing vs. Purchased Leads

Mastering internet marketing requires that you enter a whole new world. It’s work and it takes time. Whether it takes a lot of money or a little money depends on the path you take. It can be done very cheaply. It can be done quickly if you’re willing to take the money you were spending on leads and use it in advertising, with Google Adwords for example. If you’re willing to invest more time, you can save this expense.

A question that many people ask is this. “Is it really less work than if I just keep prospecting the way I’ve been doing it?” My answer is that for internet marketing, you have to put in a lot of work up-front to get your advertising infrastructure set up and working. Once it’s running, you’re golden.  Best of all, you won’t need to spend so much time on the phone because the leads in your funnel will be highly qualified and if you set things up right, they’ll be calling you. So, you’re making an investment in yourself by learning a technology that saves you time on the phone in the long run.

If you continue using purchased leads, and you have a 1 to 2 percent conversion rate, you’ll continue to call 50 to 100 people for every one you close (unless you use Tim Sales’ approach which will give you a much higher conversion rate). That’s a lot of calls and a lot of money (100*$2.50=$250). Every new customer is costing you about $125. This is actually an optimistic figure because good leads rarely cost only $2.50 each. What’s worse is that it’s very difficult to find downlines who are willing to sign up for this much work and this much rejection. So, it’s hard to duplicate yourself, which means it’s hard attain the leverage that MLM promises.

On the other hand, if you master internet marketing, you can teach that skill to your downlines. You may even generate enough leads to share with your downlines. So duplication becomes less of a problem.